HEROIC Warlord Zon'ozz - DEFEATED 19/02/12

[Azunai]

Ah. It didn't show up in logs, so hence my assumption. Then, to adjust, my 2cents based on the last time I was there, it felt really solid once we managed to execute things properly, the only downside being a lack of dps. But ofc we need to find something that works regardless of setup.

[TeaLeaf]

Just so you know, I am reading this and will be posting, but probably won't have time to do so until tomorrow.   Let's keep the ideas and discussion flowing please!

[Slush]

A: Running left/right when we are being dispelled is not good enough. There is enough room for everyone to move in their own direction.



B: When we go back into Orb Phase, the stacks doesnt hurt us anymore. We can in theory leave Eye 3 and Eye 4 up. The ranged in melee group (if we have one) should have no issue dps'ing these two down during the this orb phase. Bear in mind that if we go back into Black phase again with any of these up, the stacks are added.

[microid]

it can be done even whit my dps i did kill 1 eye alone in ping-ball phase. and also you left the most hansom man in the guild out of your picture. MURRRRRRR =)

[Azunai]

That would be heavier on healing I guess, but leave us more time on boss. We could:

A) Have whoever's on Eye 3 help out on Flail 1, Eye 2 and Eye 1
B) Have that person stay on boss instead and increase boss DPS

And of course people on the north side would be done faster since they only have to kill Eye 5 and flail 2.

[Slush]

Ah.... one more thing.

We need to have one dispeller in each group through BLACK phase (we have 3 groups in this phase).

Why?
Because the dispellable buff can and will be cast on us before we enter 2nd orb phase.
At this point of the fight (end of 1st black phase), people are spread out so much, it might be impossible to reach for the orb-phase-dispeller. (I died to this 2 times as dps on thursday).

When the 2nd Orb spawns, we will be gathered properly at ranged and melee camp, meaning we can go back to 2-group dispelling.

I wont be there tonight, but best of luck!

[Slush]

Can't really see from logs if you tried out those tips. Did you? And did it help? Wasnt there :angry: (I did see you killed him on normal, though).

[TeaLeaf]

Iirc we did.   When we split we have one healer with each wing group and one with the tank group, so we have one in each group who can dispell.   However, it comes more down to 2 dispellers as we are in 2 groups at the point they are cast, so it is usually 2 dispellers handling it as we enter black phase.

[TeaLeaf]

RGT kill target for this week.

[microid]

i still want to suggest taking the melee side last ball bumb on one player to lower the damage. then healers should have more time to keep the tank alive we had a few tank wipes last tries.

also we should use the same tactics as we did on ultraxion. we go in we kill the boss we get out.

[Azunai]

There are some problems with that:

1. We don't have any melee who has a cooldown sufficient enough (and with a short enough cooldown to use it every time) to soak all that damage. We're looking at 269.100 damage, boosted by 100% (5x +20%), so roughly 540k damage. A single melee has ~155k health, and a typical CD reduces damage taken by 40-50%. That's still almost twice their total health in damage.

2. It means the melee healers will have to move out of the way, thereby interrupting their healing process on the tank, and thus defeating the purpose of the action as a whole.

3. It's unreliable as the assigned CD person may very well get a debuff at the time of soaking, requiring him to move out

4. There's a good chance the tank gets caught in the blast radius because there's only 1 person. It means that tank is taking 50% of the total damage unmitigated. The CD person might survive, but the tank is getting pounded by the boss as well -> not a comfortable situation.

5. There's no real gain. Whereas 1 ranged soaking the last one allows healers etc. to preposition themselves, there's nothing to gain from this, as the risk and total damage is higher, instead of lower.

Overall it creates more problems than it solves.


What I'm wondering is how we got to 3rd or so phase on a regular basis the first night we were there, and now we're running into problems even getting past the 1st phase. I can't really see what we've changed...

Seems to me what we're messing up on 2 things:

1. Proper moving out, getting dispelled/healed up, and getting back in, and as a result, proper orb gathering/soaking: People moving to one side together, people not moving far enough, etc.

2. We seem to lose quite a few people in the transition from orb to tentacle phase. Are we using a minor raidwall during it? Was it better when we gathered up first, so we could have Healing Rain etc. while we cleared the first few tentacles?

[TeaLeaf]

I hear what you say Miicro, but we're not losing the tank at that point and according to the healers the healing requirement at that point is modest.   If we have someone who has the CD to soak it *and* is not healing the tank/raid then we could do it, but it might well force dps to stop dpsing to move away from the soak point and that's counter-productive.

You know I like looking at 1st deaths, so here's last night's when we got in 21 tries on HC Zon'ozz:

Please remember, the fact that someone's name is there as first death does not necessarily mean they were the problem!  All we're trying to do here is identify trends or common problems that we can fix.  I personally don't care who is on the list so long as it allows us to identify improvements and then kill the boss.  Anyway, this is how I think the first deaths occurred:

Try|1st Death|Notes
1|Amber|Died to void diffusion, need to heal up first after dispel before returning to group to soak
2|Whytee|Healing got behind and never caught up, probably due to movement
3|Amber|10 seconds with no healing, gradually died to normal AOE 16 seconds into black phase
4|Jesung|Range issues with Jas leading to little assigned healer healing, gradually died to normal AOE 12 seconds into black phase
5|Teaell|Dispersion failure, logs show dispersion cast 0.228 secs before soak AOE; L2press earlier to correct for Blizzard's stupidity
6|Whytee|4 second gap in big heals received, we got behind and never caught up
7|Miicroid|Ran in before being healed up after a dispel.  Note, 5 second gap post dispel with no healing
8|Torgen|Had Disrupting shadows for 4 seconds and just before 4th tick also took an AOE soak - can't soak & take DOT!
9|Miicroid|Same as Try 7
10|Jas|Had disrupting shadows DOT for 7 seconds, no heals during that period
11|Jesung|Looks like too few soaking, leading to higher damage than normal on the soak - movement must improve!
12|Leggs|No healing for long tiime, had DOT for 6 seconds, then was hit by soak AOE
13|Torgen|Had no healing in black phase
14|Jas|Ran in to soak too soon after dispell
15|Whytee|Took soak AOE 4 seconds before 7 stack damage killed him
17|Teaell|Ability to press hotkey failure, logs show no dispersion cast; L2press properly to correct for my stupidity!
18|Whytee|Took soak AOE 2 seconds before 7 stack damage killed him
19|Slush|Too close to TL's solo soak, AOE killed him - clear the area!
20|Amber|Too close to TL's solo soak, AOE killed him - clear the area!
21|Amber|Died in black phase 10 seconds after dispell with negligible healing in the intervening period
[/table]

Common themes;
-slow dispells due to pre-healing (is it worth Jas taking Nature's Cure point in talent build so we increase coverage and reduce delay?)
-positioning (either for range on dispells or soaking)
-not being healed up post-dispell before running in (or vice versa)
-healing gaps as people heal then dispell (an additional dispeller might help here)
-reaffirm healing assignments so no gaps

[JonnyAppleSeed]

Nature's Cure added to spec

[Azunai]

Minor adjustment to my spec made: 6% increased healing on me, instead of retaining 50 rage on stance switching. Why I ever took the latter is a mystery to me. Arms warrior never changes stances in regular rotation :O

Not game changing but it should help a wee bit on black phase ^^

[Slush]

Ladies and gentlemen. Read post 2 in this thread.
  http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1058114-Need-help-on-Zon-ozz-10-HC

Now.. Going 9-7-9-x might just be it to avoid every bit of crap happening at the same time. Comments please?

Sent from an iPad in the midst of the woods of southern Norway.